Part three....Backlash to comments made.
A few comments have been made (not to my surprise) about the idea of old school Nerf. I hope now that I can possibly give a reply to those publicly, and give my thoughts. While all points made are valid, I remind you that this is my definition of "old school" and being the idea is not tested, should be consider as nothing more then a drafted outline that will no doubt be modified in the future.
First comment.
Camo. One individual pointed out that he wears camo because he sees the satire in it. He's holding a bright yellow gun and wearing full camo. Ok, I get it, it's funny, but the point remains that no matter what your holding, be it dildo, red blaster or .45 caliber automatic pistol, people get nervous when they see camo patterns. Think of it this way. Camo is used in war and hunting, which both require shooting. Shooting is done with guns. Guns kill people. Killing is violent. People don't like violence...It's bad. The mind is able to make that connection in a split second. For normal people (not soldiers or weekend warriors), in most cases, camo is automatically going to produce a negative image of you. While yes, it is satirical, it could also potentially be the cause of getting you booted from a park. The rule remains...Use camo wisely.
Second Comment.
Blasters. Again, I got met with the idea that a tricked out pistol is the same thing as old school. This is false. Entirely. First of all, any tricked out blaster that you've made fire more then twice it's capacity and ridiculous velocities, no matter how low they might be in the comparison to other guns, does not give it the feel and characteristics of old school. Using all pistols is a pistol round, using a hornet with the pegs pulled and pump plugged is old school. If you want to use an old school pistol, go mod a nitefinder, shave down the raised lines in the barrel, make fatter darts and kick it. I've said this before, using a modded blaster that has the equal performance of another unmodded blaster does not make the modded blaster viable.
Third Comment.
New players. The comment was this playing style is bad for new players because they would not be able to compete with my crossbow. Well first off, no matter how good you are with a modded blaster, if you have your roots or more hours banked in unmodded play, you will be a better player. In unmodded Nerf, to land any hits, any hits at all, you had to use teamwork. If you did one on one, you'd end up dodging every shot and dancing outside your opponents firing radius. You had to use teamwork to take down one member at a time and then find away to overwhelm the last player. In modded Nerf, you can land a hit with a super weapon going lone wolf. The person who made this comment also told me that they play with bunkers and super weapons. Well I've done that on a paintball field, and trust me, if this is the style play your going for, you'll be much more satiated with paintball itself. He also said that his guys are so good that they have to use teamwork. I'm sure this is the case, but I will tell him that if he were using unmodded blasters, the case would be that much more. He also said the big draw to him was making his own weapons. I guess again I have to accept that this mind frame exists and there are some I will never get out of it. I remain to think that the people who play like this are missing out on a lot more fun. Back the topic at hand. His point also begs the idea that I'm trying to push this as a game type rather then a single player mind set. I assure you, I'm not looking to have old school wars or rounds, merely trying to push some players over to a more noble and challenging style of play. Lastly, to say that a new player would not be able to compete with a unmodified blaster is missing the point entirely. I can barely compete with it. It's not trying to be competitive. It's challenging the new player to gain skills otherwise neglected by using a powerful gun. Nerf is not a hard game to master and this is merely adding another challenge to make the new player that much better, that much quicker. I can almost guarantee, that within three wars, team a guy up that's been using a combination of uber blaster and old school blaster, and a dude that's used a super 2k, put equal powered guns in their hands, and the old schooler will mop the floor with him. Now to the point that they won't be able to compete with me. Well, it's a possibility, probably more, that I would beat a new player if we were both using these rules. I will give you this because I have spent over a year working on crossbows and have been playing the game for about 10. Yeah, I'd hope that in that time I would be able to gain skill enough to take down a player. Putting a uber weapon that will make it harder for me to get close to him or handicapping myself is not the answer. He'll soon learn, and all that much quicker. I've seen players start out with crap guns (Rambo) and guys start out with uber guns (Philly kids), and I've been far more impressed with the dude using crap guns. Rambo has been standing out to me lately as the beginnings of a solid player. He's starting to drop the bag a bit, but in all honesty, there's nothing wrong with it. He's having a good time, he makes us laugh. He's a funny guy, and I'm glad that he comes around. The Philly kids have yet to win a round where they play as a team, mostly because all their skill comes from shooting guns that are better or equal to ours and then running away. Had they been using a little more weaker powered weapons, maybe they would look to some of the more veteran players on tips to how to play successfully and as a team, then find out that most of the time, we're just dicking around cracking jokes and trying to get the adrenaline rushing, while simultaneously realizing that, hey, I can't win a round on my own, and if I could, I wouldn't have half as much fun as I do dicking around with these guys. Rambo has gained a few good skills. His aim is improving...He nailed me twice last war. He's gained stealth, seeing as both of those hits were without me ever seeing him. Most importantly, he's looking to better players for help and advice. Many times when I was covering him, he'd ask me what I thought he should do. I wish more players would do this more often, and I wish the experienced players would give more help. Then again, I wish most of the experienced players had done what he is doing. All and all, at this point I can't find a better example of a player who people should try to emulate in attitude and character as a player more then Rambo. He's not a juggernaught on the field (perhaps in size once he straps all those damn guns to himself), but he has his uses. I know I can always go to him and he's got a crap load of darts he's picked up and willing to hand out. I know many times I've used him as my cover fired to reload and move. Is he at Vaccs level yet? No. But I truly believe if he keeps playing and trying, he can someday have the skills to be at that level.
Fourth Comment.
Sorry Groove, I'm actually going to have to give your name on this one. Groove and I are good friends. We've nerfed together a few times and have mastered each others skills in our teamwork. I know how he plays, what he can and can't do, just as he knows what I can and can't do. We were talking about the rules the other day, primarily the part about his Guru integration, and that integrating a gun, even cutting it is no different then strapping a LnL to the side. Now let me stress one point to everyone again. This is a draft, based on my personal feelings about guns and what I would have and have not done. Let me explain why his gun came into mind and my reasoning behind the cutting rule. I don't want people integrating primary's on primary's. Vacc at one point said that him integrating the two LnLs on the side of Binky was for conveyance. To take that further I will say that adding pistols and side arms to guns is for convenience, while taping primaries to them is for advantage. I made this rule to point out that in no way is a 1500 on a crossbow old school. Not even remotely, and I didn't want to see guys cut the bottom off the crossbow, wire tie a fully intact 1500 or 2k to it and say it was old school. First off, you cut a crossbow, not cool. If you saw some of the LCM guns after a few years, you'd be sobbing like an Indian on a river bank. I actually own one, and it's in terrible shape. So cutting crossbows to start with is just not old school. In unmodded, you didn't alter the gun to feel or accommodate anything, you used it for what it was, or you didn't use it at all. Cutting a big hunk off the front of a gun to fit a splitfire on it is definitely a 100% modded gesture. Not to mention I haven't decided on whether or not to consider the splitfire a primary or not. Integrations in general should be avoided unless it's pistols taped onto primaries and done so for convince of not having anywhere else to put it. Probably best still to get a holster or stick it in your pocket. I haven't really made up my mind on this. Groove and I basically agreed to disagree.
Fifth comment.
Ammo. Comment was that PVC should be ok to keep all your guns firing one type of ammo. Well that's fine, I understand completely, but it's not old school. If you want your guns to shoot the same kind of ammo, pick two guns that shoot the same type of ammo. One of the big characteristics of unmodded was making sure you conserved ammo for when you needed it, which prevented mass shooting and was more promoting team maneuvers. Sure every once in a while you'd have a stand off, but when it ended, it was a pretty cool battle of epic proportions. The reason why modded Nerfers hate standoffs so much is because they don't use proper team work. If you can get the other team to sit still long enough for you to accumulate a plan and catch your breath, more power to them. In fact I always find it a relief when a standoff breaks out. So while I understand that it would be nice to shoot the same type of ammo, a big part of unmodded is having ammo that works well in a certain gun, and making sure you had enough if the shit hit the fan. Part of this is to modify your darts so you can use the original barrel, and that's not just for the old school feel, but also a challenge to see if you can mod the gun to shoot well without just bitching out and slapping a new barrel on it.
So there you have it. As you see, I am meeting a little resistance to this as I would expect. Some rules are more controversial then others, while some should become modern practice in every aspect of the game. Either way, I'm not making any changes to the rules yet, but I also doubt that anyone will ever follow them dead on.
Talio.
First comment.
Camo. One individual pointed out that he wears camo because he sees the satire in it. He's holding a bright yellow gun and wearing full camo. Ok, I get it, it's funny, but the point remains that no matter what your holding, be it dildo, red blaster or .45 caliber automatic pistol, people get nervous when they see camo patterns. Think of it this way. Camo is used in war and hunting, which both require shooting. Shooting is done with guns. Guns kill people. Killing is violent. People don't like violence...It's bad. The mind is able to make that connection in a split second. For normal people (not soldiers or weekend warriors), in most cases, camo is automatically going to produce a negative image of you. While yes, it is satirical, it could also potentially be the cause of getting you booted from a park. The rule remains...Use camo wisely.
Second Comment.
Blasters. Again, I got met with the idea that a tricked out pistol is the same thing as old school. This is false. Entirely. First of all, any tricked out blaster that you've made fire more then twice it's capacity and ridiculous velocities, no matter how low they might be in the comparison to other guns, does not give it the feel and characteristics of old school. Using all pistols is a pistol round, using a hornet with the pegs pulled and pump plugged is old school. If you want to use an old school pistol, go mod a nitefinder, shave down the raised lines in the barrel, make fatter darts and kick it. I've said this before, using a modded blaster that has the equal performance of another unmodded blaster does not make the modded blaster viable.
Third Comment.
New players. The comment was this playing style is bad for new players because they would not be able to compete with my crossbow. Well first off, no matter how good you are with a modded blaster, if you have your roots or more hours banked in unmodded play, you will be a better player. In unmodded Nerf, to land any hits, any hits at all, you had to use teamwork. If you did one on one, you'd end up dodging every shot and dancing outside your opponents firing radius. You had to use teamwork to take down one member at a time and then find away to overwhelm the last player. In modded Nerf, you can land a hit with a super weapon going lone wolf. The person who made this comment also told me that they play with bunkers and super weapons. Well I've done that on a paintball field, and trust me, if this is the style play your going for, you'll be much more satiated with paintball itself. He also said that his guys are so good that they have to use teamwork. I'm sure this is the case, but I will tell him that if he were using unmodded blasters, the case would be that much more. He also said the big draw to him was making his own weapons. I guess again I have to accept that this mind frame exists and there are some I will never get out of it. I remain to think that the people who play like this are missing out on a lot more fun. Back the topic at hand. His point also begs the idea that I'm trying to push this as a game type rather then a single player mind set. I assure you, I'm not looking to have old school wars or rounds, merely trying to push some players over to a more noble and challenging style of play. Lastly, to say that a new player would not be able to compete with a unmodified blaster is missing the point entirely. I can barely compete with it. It's not trying to be competitive. It's challenging the new player to gain skills otherwise neglected by using a powerful gun. Nerf is not a hard game to master and this is merely adding another challenge to make the new player that much better, that much quicker. I can almost guarantee, that within three wars, team a guy up that's been using a combination of uber blaster and old school blaster, and a dude that's used a super 2k, put equal powered guns in their hands, and the old schooler will mop the floor with him. Now to the point that they won't be able to compete with me. Well, it's a possibility, probably more, that I would beat a new player if we were both using these rules. I will give you this because I have spent over a year working on crossbows and have been playing the game for about 10. Yeah, I'd hope that in that time I would be able to gain skill enough to take down a player. Putting a uber weapon that will make it harder for me to get close to him or handicapping myself is not the answer. He'll soon learn, and all that much quicker. I've seen players start out with crap guns (Rambo) and guys start out with uber guns (Philly kids), and I've been far more impressed with the dude using crap guns. Rambo has been standing out to me lately as the beginnings of a solid player. He's starting to drop the bag a bit, but in all honesty, there's nothing wrong with it. He's having a good time, he makes us laugh. He's a funny guy, and I'm glad that he comes around. The Philly kids have yet to win a round where they play as a team, mostly because all their skill comes from shooting guns that are better or equal to ours and then running away. Had they been using a little more weaker powered weapons, maybe they would look to some of the more veteran players on tips to how to play successfully and as a team, then find out that most of the time, we're just dicking around cracking jokes and trying to get the adrenaline rushing, while simultaneously realizing that, hey, I can't win a round on my own, and if I could, I wouldn't have half as much fun as I do dicking around with these guys. Rambo has gained a few good skills. His aim is improving...He nailed me twice last war. He's gained stealth, seeing as both of those hits were without me ever seeing him. Most importantly, he's looking to better players for help and advice. Many times when I was covering him, he'd ask me what I thought he should do. I wish more players would do this more often, and I wish the experienced players would give more help. Then again, I wish most of the experienced players had done what he is doing. All and all, at this point I can't find a better example of a player who people should try to emulate in attitude and character as a player more then Rambo. He's not a juggernaught on the field (perhaps in size once he straps all those damn guns to himself), but he has his uses. I know I can always go to him and he's got a crap load of darts he's picked up and willing to hand out. I know many times I've used him as my cover fired to reload and move. Is he at Vaccs level yet? No. But I truly believe if he keeps playing and trying, he can someday have the skills to be at that level.
Fourth Comment.
Sorry Groove, I'm actually going to have to give your name on this one. Groove and I are good friends. We've nerfed together a few times and have mastered each others skills in our teamwork. I know how he plays, what he can and can't do, just as he knows what I can and can't do. We were talking about the rules the other day, primarily the part about his Guru integration, and that integrating a gun, even cutting it is no different then strapping a LnL to the side. Now let me stress one point to everyone again. This is a draft, based on my personal feelings about guns and what I would have and have not done. Let me explain why his gun came into mind and my reasoning behind the cutting rule. I don't want people integrating primary's on primary's. Vacc at one point said that him integrating the two LnLs on the side of Binky was for conveyance. To take that further I will say that adding pistols and side arms to guns is for convenience, while taping primaries to them is for advantage. I made this rule to point out that in no way is a 1500 on a crossbow old school. Not even remotely, and I didn't want to see guys cut the bottom off the crossbow, wire tie a fully intact 1500 or 2k to it and say it was old school. First off, you cut a crossbow, not cool. If you saw some of the LCM guns after a few years, you'd be sobbing like an Indian on a river bank. I actually own one, and it's in terrible shape. So cutting crossbows to start with is just not old school. In unmodded, you didn't alter the gun to feel or accommodate anything, you used it for what it was, or you didn't use it at all. Cutting a big hunk off the front of a gun to fit a splitfire on it is definitely a 100% modded gesture. Not to mention I haven't decided on whether or not to consider the splitfire a primary or not. Integrations in general should be avoided unless it's pistols taped onto primaries and done so for convince of not having anywhere else to put it. Probably best still to get a holster or stick it in your pocket. I haven't really made up my mind on this. Groove and I basically agreed to disagree.
Fifth comment.
Ammo. Comment was that PVC should be ok to keep all your guns firing one type of ammo. Well that's fine, I understand completely, but it's not old school. If you want your guns to shoot the same kind of ammo, pick two guns that shoot the same type of ammo. One of the big characteristics of unmodded was making sure you conserved ammo for when you needed it, which prevented mass shooting and was more promoting team maneuvers. Sure every once in a while you'd have a stand off, but when it ended, it was a pretty cool battle of epic proportions. The reason why modded Nerfers hate standoffs so much is because they don't use proper team work. If you can get the other team to sit still long enough for you to accumulate a plan and catch your breath, more power to them. In fact I always find it a relief when a standoff breaks out. So while I understand that it would be nice to shoot the same type of ammo, a big part of unmodded is having ammo that works well in a certain gun, and making sure you had enough if the shit hit the fan. Part of this is to modify your darts so you can use the original barrel, and that's not just for the old school feel, but also a challenge to see if you can mod the gun to shoot well without just bitching out and slapping a new barrel on it.
So there you have it. As you see, I am meeting a little resistance to this as I would expect. Some rules are more controversial then others, while some should become modern practice in every aspect of the game. Either way, I'm not making any changes to the rules yet, but I also doubt that anyone will ever follow them dead on.
Talio.
posted by Talio at 11/23/2004 06:00:00 PM
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